Interview with Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Daitokan, Part 1 by Stanley Pranin

The following article was prepared with the kind assistance of Kevin Low of the USA.

SETTING THE FACTS STRAIGHT: RESPONSES TO CONTROVERSIAL PASSAGES OF JOHN STEVEN’S “MORIHEI” BIOGRAPHY BY DOSHU KISSHOMARU UESHIBA AND THE DAITO-RYU SCHOOL

The following text is the first part of a series presenting the viewpoints of Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba and the Hokkaido-based Daitokan School of Daito-ryu Aiki Budo regarding key historical points in the lives of Morihei Ueshiba and Sokaku Takeda and the development of Aikido. Both sides offer facts and perspectives which differ significantly from those advanced in Abundant Peace by Mr. John Stevens, the first English-language biography of the Founder of Aikido and have requested that their views be published. The page numbers cited correspond to those of the original English text. This is the first part of a two-part interview. Read the second part here.

P12-14: “In Fukushima Prefecture, a bandit was terrorizing the populace, but despite their best efforts, the police failed to apprehend him. One morning the outlaw was discovered dead in the field with his neck nearly wrenched off his shoulders. Everyone wondered who had dared to slay this vicious criminal. Officially, no one was named, but several policemen knew quite well that Sokaku, who was conducting a training session in the area at the time, deliberately walked alone along the darkest roads each night.”

DAITOKAN: We do not know much about this incident. It is true that at the time there were many powerful gamblers. However, the police were quite weak. Sokaku Takeda was employed by the police in order to control the gamblers and the police introduced him to various places as a bodyguard. At that time gamblers would go to the house of a judge and threaten his wife and children with knives. He would be told to let prisoners go free and the judge would be forced to comply letting off criminals with a non-guilty verdict. Sokaku became involved in that kind of situation. This explains why in later years judges came to study under Sokaku and would affix their seals in his enrollment book. We don’t know where this story came from. It merely implies that Sokaku was the one responsible for the incident, doesn’t it? However, it is true that Sokaku killed several people in Fukushima Prefecture. This incident resulted in a court trial. This is the famous Fukushima Incident which took place about 1879 (See AIKI NEWS 69).

There was a man named Tsugumichi Saigo who was a brother of Takamori Saigo. He took an active part in establishing the 2^nd Army Division in Sendai (in Miyagi Prefecture). In this connection, he let imprisoned gamblers work on road construction between Tokyo and Sendai. Sokaku Takeda was still a young man at the time. When Sokaku passed the road in Fukushima where the gamblers were working they came to attack him for his money. They thought little of him because he was small. A basket carrier suddenly grabbed Sokaku’s chest. But he was not the type who would put up with such a thing. He hit the man with a sword cane which was sheathed in its case which he was carrying as a police weapon. Then the case broke in two and the man was cut. That’s what triggered the fighting. There were a lot of people involved not just one or two. Sokaku fought them for about one or two hours and finally they covered him with a straw basket. When he fell down they stabbed him in the back with a fire hook to finish him off. Later he showed me the big scar on his back. An uncle of Sokaku was working on a construction job and was a crew chief. Sokaku was saved because this uncle happened along. At the trial they decided to confiscate Sokaku’s sword but the verdict was that he acted in self-defense.

P14: “After witnessing an impressive demonstration and being deftly handled by the skinny Sokaku, Morihei applied for admission to the “Daito Ryu”, … and was accepted. Morihei forgot about everything else, staying at the inn for a month, training day and night with Sokaku; following thirty days of practice, Morihei was presented with a first-level teaching license… Morihei then returned to Shirataki… Then he built a dojo and house for Sokaku on his property, invited the master to teach there and received private instruction each morning for two hours. Sokaku also taught a group lesson later in the day…”

DAITOKAN: We have no evidence that Morihei Sensei practiced for one month. Nor was there a dojo. There was a large house Morihei built where they practiced. We have no evidence that he built a house and dojo for Sokaku. There was only a cabin-like structure. We do not know if they practiced two hours privately every morning.

Doshu: I do not know very much about this but I heard exactly the same thing from my father. However, I doubt that he confined himself in the inn for one month since he had a job and a wife and child. I don’t know if he received a license then but it is true that he received a kind of scroll from Takeda Sensei. I have two or three scrolls here in the house. I’ll show you.

This is the scroll. It is dated February 1916. This is another scroll dated March 1916. The place name is Futamata, Shirataki, Mombetsugun in Hokkaido. These are from the time when Morihei was working and studying under Sokaku Sensei. He received two scrolls in 1916. Although it is said that Morihei received the “kyoju dairi” (teaching certification) from Sokaku Sensei when the latter went to Ayabe in 1922, there is no scroll. It is only recorded in the enrollment book [of Takeda Sensei]. Here is a more recent scroll. It is a “Shinkage-ryu Heiho” [Shinkage School Tactics] scroll that Takeda Sensei gave to my father. It is dated September 1922. My father did not pay much attention to receiving such things.

I don’t know whether or not they practiced for two hours every morning but it is my understanding that my father either rebuilt his house or built a house nearby where he and a number of young people received instruction from Sokaku Sensei for a short time. Since Shirataki at that time was a very primitive place I think we are talking about just a hut.

P15: “Morihei suddenly left Hokkaido for good at the end of 1919. The “official” reason for Morihei’s flight from Shirataki is his father’s critical illness back in Tanabe. This explanation has been questioned, however… First of all, prior to receiving news of his father’s critical condition, Morihei had already sent his family (which now included two infant sons born in Hokkaido) back to Tanabe…”

DOSHU: This is wrong! It was true that his father, Yoroku, was sick and also that my father happened to go to the Omoto Religion Center [in Ayabe] impulsively merely because the Omoto was there on his way home. He was the sort of person who, once he had made up his mind about something, would be determined to do it even faced with a situation such as the death of a parent. Having heard on the train [on the way back to Tanabe] that a certain Onisaburo Deguchi Sensei could cure any illness, he immediately decided to go to the Omoto Religion Center to ask Deguchi Sensei to pray for his father. Given my father’s character this is quite possible and there is nothing strange about it. My father was very impressed by Deguchi Sensei but after [his visit to the Omoto] he went home to his father. This is what really happened. It’s better not to make such strange guesses about what happened. It is also written that two sons were born in Hokkaido but actually only on was born there. Also, it is stated that my father sent his family back to Tanabe before receiving news of his father’s illness. He sent Matsuko, the eldest daughter, back to Tanabe because of her schooling. Since there was no one to accompany her, they asked a person who was returning to Tanabe to take care of her. My mother was very worried about Matsuko. Also, she did not like the cold weather [of Hokkaido] and wished to return to Tanabe where it was warmer. That’s the reason my mother also returned. She also knew that Yoroku was not well then and this gave her all the more reason to return home. There’s no way my father would let his family go home willingly! My mother took Takemori with her. Takemori was suffering from infant tuberculosis.

P15: “It is my view that Morihei was both spiritually restless, still searching for life’s purpose, and disenchanted with Sokaku’s teaching methods, anxious to experiment on his own, free of the ceaseless demands of that exacting and exasperating mentor.”

DAITOKAN: There are many documents left concerning Sokaku Takeda’s teaching police and judges all over the country. This is proof that Sokaku was considered to be of high character. Morihei Sensei also called his art “Daito-Ryu” from 1915 to at least 1937.

P15: “… (Sokaku was)…ill-tempered, vain, and arrogant, he was inordinately proud of the many men he had cut down (yet terrified of their departed spirits, which he said haunted him at night)…”

DAITOKAN: Sokaku never talked about ghosts. He would be upset at us for saying such things and might come to us as a ghost himself. (Laughter)

P15: “… he constantly heaped scorn on other teachers and traditions. For example, he once referred to the dignified Jigoro Kano as a “fish peddler”…”

DAITOKAN: We have never heard the story of Sokaku saying such a thing about Jigoro Kano Sensei. However, he did not agree with what Jigoro Kano was doing and did say that it was not “bujutsu” (martial arts) but rather that it was like “physical education.” Sokaku and Kano had the sort of relationship when they were young where they would go drinking in Tokyo and so Sokaku would never say such a thing.

P15: “… he carried an unsheathed dagger on his person whenever he stepped out, and his walking stick concealed a razor-sharp blade that he applied to any dog that dared bark at him…”

DAITOKAN: Sokaku used to wrap up an unsheathed dagger in a towel to carry with him. This is an episode about Sokaku in his later years when he had started to become senile. One day Tokimune Sensei tried to wake Sokaku up and suddenly his father stabbed him in his upper arm. It was dark then and he may have acted reflexively.

What he carried with him was not a bladed stick but rather a hexagonal iron stick. We know about the story of him killing a dog. It occurred when Sokaku visited the Grand Shrines of Ise from Ayabe in 1922. Morihei Sensei, Tokimune Sensei and his wife Sue were also present. There was a gangster with a dog. This dog suddenly came to attack Sokaku while barking. It was a huge Japanese dog. When the dog opened its mouth Sokaku thrust him with the stick. The dog didn’t die immediately but the next day. Although the party went to an inn, the owner had already heard about this incident and asked them to leave. The owner was afraid the gangster might follow them to the inn and attack them. This is why they had to leave.

P15: “… Even at home, he kept a pair of sharpened chopsticks at hand to repel any intruders. Insanely suspicious, Sokaku would not take any food or drink — even tea he prepared himself! — without having a disciple taste it first lest it be poisoned…”

DAITOKAN: He did not use normal chopsticks but ones made of ivory. Since they were of ivory there were white and hard. Since ivory is a bone it can be used as a weapon too. It is true that he was very cautious since he was a martial artist. One never knows when one is going to be attacked. Sokaku always placed the brazier chopsticks towards him since he could use them in place of a sword to protect himself in case he was attacked. He was cautious in that way because he was a martial artist.

P25: “Early in the spring of 1922, Sokaku turned up at Ayabe with his wife and ten-year-old son (Sokaku married a young girl in Hokkaido)…”

DAITOKAN: If the year was 1922, Tokimune Sensei must have been about seven years old. Sokaku was some 30 years older than his wife. Sue would have been about 33 years old then. Sue also practiced. She was strong and also taught.

P26: “Daito Ryu accounts state that Morihei invited Sokaku to teach at the Omoto-kyo headquarters, but this is preposterous given the turmoil surrounding recent events there. Who would want such a difficult person around at a time like that? It appears that while in Hokkaido, Sokaku had heard rumors of a “Ueshiba Academy” in Ayabe and invited himself.”

DAITOKAN: At that time the navy practiced Sumo and the army the juken (mock bayonet weapon made of wood). Morihei Sensei could not handle those people. This was why Morihei Sensei asked Sokaku to come down to help him. In this regard Morihei Sensei wrote a letter to Sokaku but it has been lost. Vice Admiral Seikyo Asano, who was training in Daito-ryu at that time, was a seasoned veteran who used to be called the “Lion-hearted Vice-Admiral.”

DOSHU: There is no evidence that the Omoto Religion invited Sokaku Sensei. It is true that Sokaku Sensei heard that my father was teaching there. Since the Omoto religion did not show much enthusiasm towards martial arts at that time, I think it is unlikely that they invited him.

P26: “Even though Morihei was not charging for his lessons, Sokaku insisted that he organize special training sessions, to be led by Sokaku, for five yen a week.

DAITOKAN: You can refer to the payments received ledger of Sokaku Takeda for this subject.

P26 “… Onisaburo, on the other hand, took an immediate dislike to the cocky little brawler — “The man reeks of blood and violence”—…”

DAITOKAN: We understand that Sue used to visit the Omoto often but Sokaku disliked things having to do with the deities and Buddha. He used to say that he did not need to rely on them. His way of thinking was completely different. Sokaku was born in a mansion of the Grand Shrines of Ise.

DOSHU: I often heard that Onisaburo Deguchi Sensei disliked Sokaku Takeda Sensei. I do not know if this was really true but I certainly did hear it.

P26: “ … Sokaku refused to train with Morihei or teach him anything novel. In fact, Sokaku bitterly criticized Morihei for tampering with the Daito Ryu techniques.”

DAITOKAN: In Daito-ryu we have systematized the techniques of Dai ichi jo through Dai go jo and use them as the basis for our instruction. However, Ueshiba Sensei was criticized for teaching techniques different from those of Daito-ryu.

P43: “… Sokaku invited himself to the Kobukan not long after it was opened to present Morihei with a certificate he did not need or want …”

DAITOKAN: We do not know if Sokaku gave any certificate to Morihei Sensei [at that time]. There is proof that Morihei Sensei studied under Sokaku then but there is no evidence that he was presented with a certificate. It is, however, recorded that Sokaku gave a “kyoju dairi” teaching license to Morihei Sensei in 1922.

DOSHU: When Takeda Sensei came to Tokyo my father received various certificates from him. He received two large gilt-framed certificates. However, my father disliked them and when Sokaku Sensei left the dojo he took them down from the wall. They used to be kept here for a long time but they have been misplaced and I can’t find them. But I did see them when I was a child.

P43: “… Almost without exception (a notable one is Takuma Hisa, who bolted from Morihei’s group to study with Sokaku), the irascible little tyrant made a highly unfavorable impression on all of Morihei’s friends and disciples…”

DOSHU: It is true that Mr. Takuma Hisa studied Aikido under my father at the Osaka Asahi News Company. Probably it was Mr. Hisa who called Takeda Sensei to Osaka since he was the teacher of Ueshiba Sensei. It seems that he did this without consulting with my father. My father said, “Since my teacher is going to them I shouldn’t go to the Asahi News dojo anymore.” He never returned to Mr. Hisa’s dojo to teach after that. He had no contact with Mr. Hisa from then on. However, after the war, Mr. Kenji Tomita came along and asked my father to give ranking to Mr. Hisa. My father thought that since Mr. Hisa had been devoting himself to the art it would be all right to give him rank. So he awarded Mr. Hisa the 8^th dan. After my father passed away, Mr. Hisa published a book. He sent me two or three copies saying that he collected the techniques from his two teachers — Ueshiba Sensei and Takeda Sensei — under one cover.

I did not succeed my father because Aikido is strong or weak. If I had done so for that reason, my efforts would be worthless. It is important for us to reflect on the path of Aikido and its direction and to make an effort to use it to improve ourselves and make a better society. If we keep talking about physical strength, it’s like going back to the Sengoku (Warring States) Period. In the days of chivalry I’m sure that stronger was better. However, if you walk around nowadays boasting that you are strong nobody will take you seriously. Those who still cling to the old way of thinking concerning the martial arts in times like these are mistaken. However, as a result of his martial arts training Morihei developed views concerning the essential areas of a man’s life which I think are wonderful. Although I believe he did have a great deal of talent in the martial arts, I think his most important contribution was that he stressed things spiritual. That is what Aikido is. He allowed the martial arts spirit to blossom in present-day society and create a permanent philosophy of how to create a fine society through the martial arts. This is where his greatness lies. Morihei Ueshiba accomplished this through the medium of the martial arts. It is our task to make this martial art training method better and more meaningful.

This is the first part of a two-part interview. Read the second part here.